Up until now I have kept this off of the blog and out of the public eye. As many of you know from our egroup the Hennepin County Sheriff's Office unilaterally dropped out of the GI Bill's OJT (On the Job Training)program for veterans. This is a program that costs the Sheriff's Office nothing because the veterans have paid into this as part of their military service. It's a way to attract and retain good employees at no cost to the Sheriff's Office.
In a nutshell, it pays a veteran a certain amount of money each month after returning to civilian life while they are gaining experience/training on the job. Kind of like a deferred compensation program for vets, it's their money. The Sheriff's Office had two year agreements with some of our veterans and the Veterans Administration to participate in this program. Many detention deputies have participated in this program over the years. Suddenly the Sheriff's Office has opted not to participate. While this is voluntary on their part it makes no sense. How often can you attract and compensate good employees at no cost to your bottom line?
The nastier part is that two of our veterans received letters from the VA over Veterans Day weekend informing them they were dropped, despite signed two year contracts. The Sheriff's Office didn't have the decency to tell them themselves.
The Department of Labor even went to the HCSO and met with them in an attempt to get them to continue with the GI Bill program. The Hennepin County Sheriff's Office re-affirmed their request to cancel, claiming that detention deputies are fully trained/qualified after 3 months!
Team Legal attorney's have been assisting our veterans with this struggle. I can think of few things lower then screwing over veterans, especially during a time of war.
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Hello, I am a veteran that has participated in this program. Your facts are not correct. To stick up for the Sheriff's Office, in order for them to "honestly participate" in this OJT Program, there has to be a 6 month training period for a detention deputy. The detention deputies in the Sheriff's Office only have a 3 month training program. The Sheriff's Office did the right thing.
ReplyDeleteI'll disagree with you. While there may only be 3 months of classroom and FTO training there is a one year probationary period and they are not considered experienced enough to run a shift until they've been there two years.
ReplyDeleteIn Article VII, section 4D of our contract,Seniority, is the "rule of 2 years" that allows the Sheriff's Office to make sure that no shift is staffed with more then 50% of employees with less then 2 years experience.
During all of that time they are gaining experience, and training many hours a year. In other words gaining on the job experience.
To be fair, the Sheriff's Office doesn't have to participate in this program. They have exercised their right to opt out. But be aware that neither the VA nor the Department of Labor had a problem with the way the program was being administered and even offered to help them out if there were questions on their end.
At the very least, the decent thing to do would have been to honor the contracts they signed with two of our detention deputies, rather then just cutting them from the program causing them considerable financial hardship.
Finally, our training structure has not changed much since the inception of this program that was approved by the VA years ago, and certainly hasn't changed in the few months between when they signed the contract with our veterans and when they cut them.
I am a veteran as well. However, I am hearing stories how Sheriff Stanek and the training department signed contracts with these veterans and then went behind there backs to get this program canceled without any notification to the half dozen or so veterans enlisted in the program. In addition, what is also upsetting to hear that some SGT even frauded one of these veterans by using his signature against him to show he agreed to have it canceled when in fact he did not.
ReplyDeleteI might not know a lot about this program as well but I always believe in “if it’s not broken why fix it?”
So why did the County cancel this program…. Sheriffs Stanek should have to answer that question.
And to Bill. Is the reason you support the canceling of this program might have to be that you already received your 2 year compensation? If you feel so STRONGLY to keep it at 3 months did you give back the 21 months extra you where paid? I think not.
I usually never post anything on this site but I believe Veterans and soldiers should ALWAYS stick together….. right Bill?
To stick up for the Sheriff's Office, again, in order for them to "honestly participate" in the OJT Program, per Veteran's Administration the job must meet the following criteria: The detention deputy position "must require at least 6 months of training to be fully trained. This training must be documented and reported." This isn't a requirement made by the Sheriff's Office. The detention deputy position only has 3 months of documented and reported training. It doesn't matter what the contract states, it doesn't matter how long the probation period is - the facts are, this program was created to benefit veterans, but there are certain criterias that have to be met. Criterias that the detention deputy position does not meet.
ReplyDeleteTo comment on the two detention deputies that have been "caused considerable financial hardship" due to them not receiving the OJT money ($900.00+- monthly), I don't think President Roosevelt would have been happy to hear they were using the GI Bill as income.
Maybe try to extend the training program for the detention deputy position, so that it meets the criterias defined by the VA. Wouldn't that be easier?
Again, the Sheriff's Office did the right thing.
I just think Veterans deserve any benefits they can get. What is the administration afraid of??
ReplyDeleteThey fought for me/us....
It’s not about the money; the intricacies of the program are broadly irrelevant. The really monstrous thing is that it was a valid, well earned, living and breathing benefit, specifically for veterans. The thought processes that go into a decision like this, shock the imagination. Make no mistake this isn’t an accidental occurrence, somebody thought long hard about this, and when all was said and done, they placed no value on the past, present and future sacrifices that are servicemen and women have made, and will continue to make. They placed no value on the blood spilt in the defense of this country, nor those gallant soles that have paid the ultimate sacrifice. We have within the Sheriff’s office many veterans , some who have suffered the vagaries of War fist hand, from the ‘Tet’ offensive through to the ongoing campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq. The common theme in these wars , was the absence of a discernible front line with the enemy, who would have thought it could have stretched so far!!
ReplyDelete“Just as we must protect them and give them everything they need on the battlefield, we owe these young men and women the same support for their education upon their return home. They are our future.” Senator Joe Biden
"I am honored to have the support of these brave American heroes who understand, better than anyone, the sacrifices required of those who volunteer to serve their country on the battlefield," said Senator McCain. "These men and women have put their lives on the line to defend America and I will do everything in my power to honor their sacrifices." Senator John McCain
Perhaps someone with higher political office aspirations, should be more astute when choosing which battles to fight!
Haud ignota loquor
Just honor there contracts; if anyone deserves the $$ it is the veterans. Is this costing the County money? If so I would be happy to let my Hennepin taxes pay for it. Sounds fishy to me
ReplyDeleteSheriff's Office needs to talk to there Veterans... I hear its more than 2 and its beyond just the money. I dont blame them from being upset. Makes me sick
ReplyDeleteIt is actually only a 2 month training program for new Detention Deputies. 8 Weeks......then they count on the floor.
ReplyDeleteBills attitude sums up the crux of the problem.
ReplyDeleteBill said to "honestly participate" in the OJT Program, per Veteran's Administration the job must meet the following criteria: The detention deputy position "must require at least 6 months of training to be fully trained. This training must be documented and reported." This isn't a requirement made by the Sheriff's Office.
The way the program was being run was already pre-existing and pre-approved by the VA and Department of Labor (DOL). Many detention deputy/veterans already participated in the program.
The VA and DOL have made themselves available to assist the HCSO with their concerns. Instead the Sheriff's Office opted to throw in the towel.
What changed in our training program between the signing of the last two contracts and dropping out? Nothing.
Bill also said, To comment on the two detention deputies that have been "caused considerable financial hardship" due to them not receiving the OJT money ($900.00+- monthly), I don't think President Roosevelt would have been happy to hear they were using the GI Bill as income.
Are you suggesting that these veterans are somehow ripping off the taxpayers? Are you suggesting that they shouldn't have expected the Hennepin County Sheriff's Office to honor a signed agreement?
When you retire will you consider your retirement fund and deferred comp that you paid into, just as these vets did the OJT program, a source of income or pulling one over on the taxpayers?
The Sheriff's Office does many things well that I am very proud of, but on this issue they are wrong.
Rather then saying, "Oh my God, we don't think we meet the program's requirements, lets quit."
They could say, "What can we do to make sure we meet the requirements so we can honor our commitment to our veterans?"
Finally Bill you said, The Sheriff's Office did the right thing.
You can think you are "right," but be morally wrong.
Its frustrating to see a administration fighting with Veterans when they have SO MANY other fights; The Bridge? Sheriffs involvement w/that bridge?
ReplyDeleteC'mon we have to pick battles inside the jail with inmates ALL the time and I dont see why the Sheriff would want this one... I would like to see county funds spent else where.... I would think the public tax payers would too!
I love working for the County
ReplyDeleteI do believe Sheriff Stanek should think before reacting
Go Marines / Army!
I am afraid I have to agree with the Sheriff, *%$# the veterans, they don't deserve it!
ReplyDeleteTo comment on the two detention deputies that have been "caused considerable financial hardship" due to them not receiving the OJT money ($900.00+- monthly), I don't think President Roosevelt would have been happy to hear they were using the GI Bill as income.
ReplyDeletePresident Roosevelt had nothing to do with the GI bill; it was Truman.
I am a member of 320, but in a different bargaining unit. I am appalled by the behavior of the Sheriff’s office in this matter. These veterans risked their lives for our country, for our freedom, for you and me. Now they are being treated like crap by the sheriff and his underlings.
ReplyDeleteUNACCEPTABLE.
Shame on you, Stanek. Hang your head low, boy.
I live in Hennepin County. And I vote.
What is wrong with you people? You have all lost your minds! Your words are so personal. Do you really think Sheriff Stanek woke up one day and said, "Hey, I think I'm going to take away a couple detention deputies, who are veterans, OJT Program." Oh please. Open your narrow minds! You all are so quick to criticize everyone else but the two detention deputies that brought this on. Their dishonesty in participating in the program hurt everyone. They are the one's who should be very ashamed of themselves.
ReplyDeleteThe GI Bill, signed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on June 22, 1944, was not intended to be used to build a garage with as one of the detention deputies is doing. The money is intended to be used for educational purposes and to receive while participating in an on-the-job program.
This "financial hardship" they are feeling is their own fault. They should have used the money and taken a 101 college course - How to Manage your Finances. Talk about financial hardship, just wait until the VA's Office asks them to pay back 21 months of money they shouldn't have received. $900 x 21 - oh, you all can do the math ($18,900). Ouch!
Comparing the GI Bill to a retirement plan or deferred compensation plan is not comparing apples to apples. Oh wait, in the sense that there are specific rules and criterias that one must meet to withdraw money from ones retirement plan or deferred compensation plan, well yes, then that would be a good comparison to the OJT Program. I know, you all have forgotten about those rules and criterias created by the Veterans Administration for participation in the OJT Program.
Again, the Sheriff's Office did the right thing.
I am a combat veteran.
ReplyDeleteSo, if not the Sheriff then, who is responsible? Who amongst all the “bean counting cronies” will admit that they cut a veterans benefit, before the contention on what counted as “training time” had been clarified. Who arbitrarily decided without independent review to call veterans “dishonest” when they sought payment from a historically processed source. What arrogant, pompous ass, thinks that because someone is a detention deputy, as opposed to an” I couldn’t make it on the street cop” that he/she has any more wisdom or ability. Because when you are in the middle of a firefight in a far away land, none of that “them and us mentally counts”. Because one of those people who you despise so much, might the guy that saves your life.
The right thing to do is to reverse the decision until there is full clarification.
Check this link to what the OJT program is all about.
ReplyDeletehttp://education.military.com/money-for-school/veteran/gi-bill/gi-bill-apprenticeship-and-ojt-program
Some questions may get answered and some may not.
I am a Veteran and use to work for Hennepin Co., back in the day. A few things came up reading this blog.
ReplyDelete1. Is this "Bill" Sheriff Stanek or someone in is department? - he seems a bit upset.
2. Who ever stated veterans dont deserve the money stating they do nothing seems a bit non american.
3. I have no idea that is going on in that department but I am sure it will work it self out.
4. Dont you all wear the same uniform now? Cant you all get along?
to the last poster:
ReplyDeleteNo, we don't all wear the same uniform now. Licensed Deputies are different from Detention Deputies. Also, any deputies who are still on probation have to wear pink shirts to differentiate themselves from the others.
I like this quote...
ReplyDelete"What arrogant, pompous ass, thinks that because someone is a detention deputy, as opposed to an” I couldn’t make it on the street cop” that he/she has any more wisdom or ability. "
Jealous of not being licensed much?
Just because only a few licensed peace officers work in the jail along side "detention deputies" doesn't mean they are "I couldn't make it on the street cop". That is a hit on the civilian staff more than licensed... Because what do you call the other 300+ deputy sheriff's that DON'T work in the jail then?
Does anyone really know the exact cost to the county? Is it only the time it takes someone twice a month to fill out the paperwork (10 minutes, 15 minutes?)? Does the Sheriff have to come up with a training program that is veteran specific? I trully wonder if this is going to cost Stanek much more than saving face now. Have you noticed that when it would cost Stanek money it was no longer a problem for some to have black leather and some to wear brown leather. If there are no dollars leaving Stanek's budget his people should help his people. Why would anyone especially a boss not want their personell to get $ that does not come from the budget?
ReplyDeleteFor the record, licensed deputies assigned to the jail perform the same job in the same dangerous environment we do. We would like to see the OJT program extended to our licensed deputy veterans also. This is a veterans issue, ALL veterans.
ReplyDeleteAbout the budget - isnt Stanek trying to run for office some where else? - spend more of the tax payers money on a campaign video - he is pathetic
ReplyDeleteCorrect, Stanek is a F-in Joke in my book...look at "shooting Straight" how many more pictures of himself can he fit on there?
ReplyDeletePoor Stanek and his over weight administration / you all need to focus on your health and read the column of your over paid so called expert in the field of "health" and learn to lose those pot bellies in all those photos / kinda sad / oh ya GO VETERANS
ReplyDelete